building some projects

since Ben would give it a try, we could exchange some ideas about building a new project.
i thought about it and i got some basics to stimulate our imagination:
- it would be fun to translate an existing module from nwn1 to nwn2
- it would be easier to adapt nwn1 scripts to nwn2
- we could try to separate the tasks, i dont know how... maybe modeling and scripting, conversation, database? i dont know
- modeling would be shape a area
- scripting would be to attach all elements
- conversation would be attach with journal
- database would be developping something to save the stuff
- and we could try to separate the tasks by systems, i.e., store system, ai system, xp system, trigger system, spawing system, looting system... i dont know

well... this is the idea... WOL has a nwn1 module and i have a nwn1 module.. that would be great for a start
now if you could give your expertise and how you feel confident in your skills...
i can script, i am very good in database
i can reverse engineer a system and adapt it
my only constrait is time and my handicap is that i cant script something i dont like to do

Yes this sounds good. I dont know how much expertise or confidence i have to lend but ill learn fast. With more people working on it time should be significatly cut. So if i undersand this correctly we will be working with both toolsets. Wunderbar I am going to work on this alot for me to be able to traslate things from one to the other but I feel I have the technical know how to compleat any task Julia can throw at me. Well in any case sounds good to me just need to know when we start.

juliam wrote:

since Ben would give it a try, we could exchange some ideas about building a new project.
i thought about it and i got some basics to stimulate our imagination:
- it would be fun to translate an existing module from nwn1 to nwn2
- it would be easier to adapt nwn1 scripts to nwn2
- we could try to separate the tasks, i dont know how... maybe modeling and scripting, conversation, database? i dont know
- modeling would be shape a area
- scripting would be to attach all elements
- conversation would be attach with journal
- database would be developping something to save the stuff
- and we could try to separate the tasks by systems, i.e., store system, ai system, xp system, trigger system, spawing system, looting system... i dont know

well... this is the idea... WOL has a nwn1 module and i have a nwn1 module.. that would be great for a start
now if you could give your expertise and how you feel confident in your skills...
i can script, i am very good in database
i can reverse engineer a system and adapt it
my only constrait is time and my handicap is that i cant script something i dont like to do

UGH! NWN2 isnt as exciting as NWN1, i frefer a PW that doesnt use custom haks.....

Mwahaha at least ill know where they are! and seeing that becase i am never on julias team (even though i want to be on her team) it may even it out. (however i dont think julia cheats and even if she dose i dont much care). I just enjoy the game even though we lose.

i have no need to cheat

ok, i just throw my ideas in this post.

Strategy to write BotD2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
we have 15 systems in BotD

_ Documentation
a army (was troop)
d Death
g Gold
h heartbeat
i Item
l Logging
m Map
r Rest
s Score
t Team
w Tweak
x XP
z zone

This first list was written after examining all the scripts in BotD1.
This way of cutting the scripts into systems has the primary goal of simplifying the content of the module. The second goal was to find a way to find a scripter who would be responsible for that system. We could also add any systems that come to your mind like AI system, looting system etc...
Actually, what is blocking us to put those systems altogether is the missing server functions in nwn2 concerning the zone system or if you prefer, the transition system.

Aside those scripting system, there are the modeling part, the conversation part, the hosting part and euh.. what else do i forget?
As i already suggested, we should make a warroom as a tiny module which would have ports to enter the current map where each map would be a module. The warroom module would be a persistent module gathering all the scripts from the systems that would prepare the players before joining the battlefield; leveling, joining, buying, resting, logging, equiping... We would get battlefield without any scripts, validations, heartbeats etc... and concentrate the battlefield module for the action in a way to maximize the performance of the module for the players.

In the documentation system, i would try to write a nomenclature of the system and the principles adopted to write BotD2.

The ARMY system is quite simple as the existing code does a good job. A big part would be to create that army to get the equivalent of NWN1 army.

The DEATH system is also simple but there are some questions to answer about where to respawn. I would simply return the player to the warroom without calculated delays for now and later, we could address this question.

The GOLD system is a tiny system which would limit the amount of gold depending on the level like actually it is but, i wouldnt tell the players on the battlefield, i.e. no heartbeat to give gold in battlefield but instead, give gold to the player's account in the warroom like a direct deposit

The HEARTBEAT system has to be examine carefully, some hb go in the warroom and some in the battlefield. I didnt check deeply in those scripts yet but those scripts would follow the same principles to maximize the battlefield module.

The ITEM system concerns the shops, the forge and the events. A big part here is to create the items respecting the balancing issues. On the battlefield, we would restrict anything and concentrate all the validations in the warroom, and once done in the warroom, we could simply put a sticker on that item to simplify the validation in the battlefield.

The LOGGING system concerns logging in and out, booting, crashing etc... My first idea about logging is to give a sticker to players who port to the battlefield. Once the validation is done, the player can use the port which has a password with the ip. The only way to log in BotD2 would be by the warroom where the validations take place to avoid nwn2 problems with client-enter...

The MAP system refers to the battlefield modules, which map module to load, when and what...

The REST system is quite simple too.

The SCORE system has to be completly rewrite. And it gives alot of headache concerning the principles: the more we tweak the game for balancing issues, the less we get compatible with the community. I dont mind to tweak some issues of nwn2 that would eventually be fixed in futur patches but the score system and the tweak system are sensitive subjects imo...

The TEAM system is quite simple too. The validations already exist and i see nothing major.

The XP system seems simple too.

The ZONE system depends on some server functions like ActivatePortal that has to be fixed soon but i found a workaround that already works well on certain PWs and i will work on that part if we dont get our fixes soon.

The CONVERSATION part is quite easy.

The MODELING part is quite easy too and consists in stripping all the stuff from existing modules of the OC. For example, if we decide to do the highcliff map, the scenario could be something like Aniel and Roshnak moved in that area, recruiting an army where the battle would raise. Roshnak recruited the lizardfolks from the tribes and Aniel recruited the farmers from the village
Now you arrive from the Candlekeep stronghold in reinforcement and the war is declared officially

The key idea is to avoid any needs of download or updated download, no need of worldgate or Audulo, no need of download something from the vault, no hak, no overrides, no tlk, no 2da, no guis, nothing.... The only rule to remember is DO NOT REBAKE

Now, think on that and give me your ideas... BotD1 is really simple when we look at it by systems and it might be easier to affect a responsible for a system this way no?

p.s.
about nwn2 toolset, i will write a guideline, i.e. to avoid any existing issues and to simplify the use

rthe xp system needs to be WAY slower, and somehow be able to move the defenders around where needed. or be able to purchase units, like npc's pr something, you could experiment with nwn1 first though

Ya if there was some way to pay to upgade your units insted of them doing it themselfs that could add another layer of depth to the gameplay i am not sure how easy it would be to implemnet though. i agree with the xp system too i would rather have it be more tactical at low levels then just who evers char is the best wins. in other words make it possible to win before lets say 15. Even though it wont be likely with other people working against you but i feel like i am just goofing off untile i hit 17 or so before i can even kill the weekest defenders. This is of course subject to scrutiny and should be tested. I need to work with the toolset more i realy dont know its limits persay. I go home tomarrow so ill not only be able to join NWN2 games (julias server) but ill be able to host them aswell. I am exited heh Cheers guys (and lady)!

Nixyss wrote:

Ya if there was some way to pay to upgade your units insted of them doing it themselfs that could add another layer of depth to the gameplay i am not sure how easy it would be to implemnet though. i agree with the xp system too i would rather have it be more tactical at low levels then just who evers char is the best wins. in other words make it possible to win before lets say 15. Even though it wont be likely with other people working against you but i feel like i am just goofing off untile i hit 17 or so before i can even kill the weekest defenders. This is of course subject to scrutiny and should be tested. I need to work with the toolset more i realy dont know its limits persay. I go home tomarrow so ill not only be able to join NWN2 games (julias server) but ill be able to host them aswell. I am exited heh Cheers guys (and lady)!

rorqock posted a few scripts for nwn1 to use

great news

Ortie is a player in France, he offered to be responsible of the ITEM system. I gave him an overview of that system on the forum of BotD and i'll wait for his answer. If you want to have an overview of that system, go see that post; there are some principles and the tasks to do for that system

corrections

Ortie will choose another system

DaSnorro has already created the items and the stores, he got to script the event handlers still...

So, what system would you like to do guys?

DaSnorro said he already created the items

Ortie didnt reply atm

Ben? would you take the modeling part?

Rorq? you could take a complex system?

sure ya just got to be a bit more specific of my task and i shall start right away.

well your in charge julia and you know what we like, so ill let you over see it...if you need me to look at it i will.

the modeling part

the idea behind that part is to get a collection of empty shells to use in the futur. In other words, we strip all the content of the OC and MotB modules preserving only the baked areas. Then we use only placeables to design the futur modules. Placeables, items, creatures, conversations and scripts are not required by the client side, the players will not need any downloads, no Audulo, no Worldgate, no NWNVault
Any players joining internet games will be able to join a NWN2 modules without any downloads in the same fashion of NWN1. The code, placeables, scripts etc. will reside only on the server side. If you want to test this, just log on Multiplayer Support server in Tech Support category: uninvited_guests is an OC module used as an empty shell, i stripped everything from that OC module but i didnt touch anything regarding the pathfinding matrix, the bake etc.. from it, so anyone who has the OC can log on that module... i just changed the code in it.

So, the modeling part step one is to get an empty module of the OC.
I suggest Bonegauger approch area in the module OWW of the OC to begin with. Here's how to do it...

take a copy of the original OOW module and rename it with original_official name of the module.
take another copy of that module and put it in your module documents folder and rename it official_name_00. the _00 means it's your very beginning version of that module. At each save, use save as and increment that last number in the module name _01, _02...
This way, if you did something you dont like and you want to start over, just reload the previous version. Disable all the features from the toolset, disable autosave, auto rebake, all stuff taking memory and videofeatures to keep it very low profile on memory and video. The toolset is a tool not a game...

Load the module, never use autoload, load the last version, dont use directory mode. Dont show any areas. Delete all the conversations, all the scripts. Save as
Load the first area, delete all, Save as
Load the next area, delate all, Save as
Do not delete any cutmesh, do not edit the terrain
You can keep some stuff like the lights and some placeables that you think it's important to keep.
Send me a copy of your last version, i put it up and test if someone else can log on it without any client files...

This is the first step in the modeling part


.....

it's Bonenasher and Eyegauger.. i was refering to Bonenasher approach

that's cool
Ortie choose the army system

the ARMY system

Here's my thoughts about this system and the scripts related
you'll have alot of work but not all at the same time pheeewww

event_spawn_troo
event_troop_lvl
evnt_troop_death
lok_settroop_lvl
lok_troop_level
lok_troop_setup
lok_troop_spawn
lok_troopxp
on_area_load
on_troop_spawn
sc_upgrade_troop
upgrade_troops

all the scripts should start with a_
some existing script names are confused with their real object...
you need an include a_include to put all your functions
The spawning rythm timing, and the upgrades must be parametrized so we will have a menu gui to parametrize each game ingame if we want according to what players want ...
i.e. if upgrade troops should be at lvl 19 or at the average lvl 19 of the party or at another level or if we use another way to start the upgrades, the parameters would help to customize the game...

you should create a set of events gathered in something like a_events with a switch case for each event: death, perceive, etc..
that script would call a specific script like a_death where you could put the code... a bit like the way Obsidian did their own scripts...

Now, that system is linked with other systems like xp and gold when a troop dies, so, just skip the other system functions to begin with and the player who will get that system will insert a function in your script...

Ok, now that we talked about the old system translation into nwn2, lets discuss what we will do in NWN2.
Ben choose the modeling part, i will post the stuff about that part, just know that we will get empty modules of the OC and MotB. In each module of the OC, we will have a theme, for example, i asked Ben to start with the module OOW and the area Bonenasher approach. That area is owned by the orcs and we must find another group that could match with them, the bugbears maybe?
I think that you get the idea, the war moved to those mountains and the creatures are the orcs and the bugbears. You just have to find a way to create orcs and bugbears at the same rating and defenders and elites of that race to defend the dragon.
Dont create the waypoint, just the creatures for the army system. To give you some ideas about another module we could create is HIghCliff where the lizardfolks would fight against euh.... i dont know... that would be cool too to have armies of undeads, i dont know...
Anyway, that was my first thoughts about this system.
You should gather all your questions and replies in your own thread and moderate it since you will be the responsible for the creatures... JonesZX also did alot of work about creatures but try to respect the actual balancing issues as they are our starting point of reference before continuing the discussion about that subject...

p.s.
there is an issue about monster collisions that crashes a server when using nwn2server. Do your test in single, i have a workaround to avoid those collisions since Obsidian didnt fix that.

event_spawn_troo
event_troop_lvl
evnt_troop_death
lok_settroop_lvl
lok_troop_level
lok_troop_setup
lok_troop_spawn
lok_troopxp
on_area_load
on_troop_spawn
sc_upgrade_troop
upgrade_troops

those scripts are related to the ARMY system posted earlier
as you notice, there are 3 spawning scripts, 4 level scripts, 2 or 3 setup scripts. That's a symptom of spagetti, it works but dont touch it some coders would say.
the strategy of rewriting BotD2 includes a big cleaning process to simplify all this code that seem complicated but in fact is so simple. Ortie will have a good challenge to fix this because it is harder to fix from this mess then rewrite from scratch... we'll see what will result of this cleaning

Today at 1:14am, DaSnorro wrote:Hmm, a good idea to use a mod from the OC. i wasn't too thrilled about the map me and my brother made anyway. Creatures etc. can be imported easily, so you can just take them from the test BotD2. To start with I would just keep everything as it was in BotD1, balance is the least important thing. First get it to work.

I don't really understand what you want me to do with the items/shops though. I only have an old version, so I don't have forge scripts. If you wish I can try to make a test war-room with an OC mod with shops.


glad
i will start working on an empty module for warroom
i already choose the module, there will be few areas, i would like you to keep their vocation for 2 reasons: first, new players will guess quickly where they are since they played in that module already, second reason, euh... i forgot
nevermind, i start working on the warroom module and i send it to you by email but for now, i send you immediatly the last version of botd v4_08_12 where 4.08 represents the last version Lok worked with and the _12 represents the 12 minor modifications i did in it. I remind you that i didnt modify any scripts or the few i did, you'll see a comment where i explain what i did.

Also, i will post right after this, some hints for Ortie concerning the ARMY system. As you can guess, the ITEM system is worst then the ARMY system in the sense that the ITEM functions and scripts are scattered and mixed with other scripts and include and setup. You need something clean like one i_include for your own needs and few scripts only to handle your system...

ok, i pm you DaSnorro

i pm also to Ortie

i am testing filewind.com for filehosting presently...

Ben, i just finished the warroom of BotD
basically, i stripped an OC module that will be the warroom
i presently host that warroom in team category
if you can log on it, that means, i didnt break anything
i leaved some scripts in it so later, we'll unlock the doors to access the stores made by DaSnorro.
OOW Bonenasher approach will be the perfect area for a battle between orcs and bugbears, Ortie will wait that you finish to strip that OC module to put his creatures

www.filesend.net (edit:sorry for my mistake, i wrote .com first time)

we have an account on that files hoster now
the username is : botd
i upload the warroom on that host
you just need to link, type username and password
i'll send password to DaSnorro and Ben

i also made a round of tests, upload, download back, uncompress, load in toolset and save... everything was fine

just take a look at that file Ben, i stripped almost all the content to use it as the warroom, i leaved some areas for future and some scripts to eventually use them later...
and sorry for that quick work, i had to give that to DaSnorro because he needs it right now for the ITEM system...

ok i got this handled know. I uploaded my file anyway and i am going to see if i cant test yours as well. other then that no worries.

ill delete this later but come on guys im tired of being ignored. ARE WE PLAYING TONIGHT!!!

ignored????
meh?
do you mean that i didnt play yesterday?
i played but very late, i had to work on the project
and still tonight, my father is setting a new server
then, i'll install nwn2 motb and update
then, i'll putup Ben's module on the server and i'll try to log and test ...
and i have to do a round of forums then i'll play

lol ya me my friend and brother are going to hang out we will be online but i dont think ill be able to get into NWN not enough cd keys but i might stop by and say hello. mayhap.

yes
a new server

we'll have a new server just for nwn2
i also did some adjustments for the server crash issue
i'm gone try those adjustments i cant wait to see if i worked around that issue to avoid crashes

Thats realy cool i cant wait. I hope it works more dedicated servers the better. do you know the specs on it i would like to see how much of a improvement it will be.